Curse

Batou of Nine · Feb 22, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Well, here it is. I recently have been making LOTS of builds in RA with [elites] that people have thrown aside many moons ago. There are perhaps 30% to 40% of all [elites] spanning across all classes that have been dubbed as useless.

The CHALLENGE:: Create builds, that WORK, that surround previously dubbed useless elites for anything from Random Arenas, Team Arenas, Heroes Ascent, GvG and PvE.

This challenge is not for only warriors, but put the builds in their appropriate class sections and title them to relate to this challenge!

Don't hold your breath, because there is no reward, no prize; its not even a competition! This is a challenge for people to produce VIABLE and working builds that can work in a team or BE the team strategy through using {elites} that no one likes...

And on that note. An example for a warrior elite that nearly no one uses:: FLOURISH!!

(i will submit some of my flourish builds tomorrow!)

HAPPY BUILD MAKING AND GIVE THOSE LONELY ELITES SOME LOVIN'!! ENJOY!

Btw, will this thread even get enough views here? Maybe better somewhere else? I couldnt think of where else so mods do as you wish.

Vermilion Okeanos · Feb 22, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Hmm... for example of flourish, are one suppose to make it more effective than other builds (such as better than using warrior's endurance instead)?

Because, there are plenty of builds for Flourish, it is just that other skills does the same job much much better.

As for other skills...

CA build
W/Mo
11 smite
16 hammer (helm + superior)
6-8 strength (minor)
1-2 prot

Hammer bash
Crushing blow
Holy strike
Iresistable blow
Bull's charge [E]
mend aliment
Strength of honor
res signet

Put strength of honor before battle, charge toward opponent monk (who usually would want to kite), activate bull's charge to knock down -> crushing blow -> holy strike -> iresistable blow = dead monk. If the opponent do not wish to kite, you know what to do. With stonefist gaunlet, you can get in CB HS in 1 knock down, and IB right after. Mend is for the huge number of people taking blind and most monk dont mend well.
-NOTE: Make sure you have enough energy before you start the chain again.-

Murder In China · Feb 22, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

I saw a WM warrior using Bull's Charge before, it can't be that bad...

Vermilion Okeanos · Feb 22, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Bull's charge is really good in my opinion... I was under the impression the OP wanted "underused kind of bad".

Lampshade · Feb 22, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Bull's Charge is quite effective, espically in split squad where snaring can make or break a battle.

Sab · Feb 22, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Flourish raaaaawks!

Pure Strike
Desperation Blow
Power Attack
Flourish
Watch Yourself!
Healing Signet
Dolyak Signet
Sprint

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=121904

Katari · Feb 22, 2006, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuxA

Flourish raaaaawks!

Pure Strike
Desperation Blow
Power Attack
Flourish
Watch Yourself!
Healing Signet
Dolyak Signet
Sprint

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=121904

I'd swap out WY! for res sig, and Dolyak for Balanced Stance. Dolyak just isn't a good skill for RA/TA, or any pvp at all for that matter. No warrior should be without res sig in RA/TA.

For RA/TA:

Hamstring
Pure Strike
Savage Slash (Maybe some damage skill instead?)
Swift Slash (Final Thrust?)
Florish{e}
Sprint
Heal Sig
Res Sig

Maybe I should swap out something for frenzy?

Cirian · Feb 22, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

I never see Plague Signet {E} used, but it's an interesting wild card with Draw Conditions. Say a team mate is hit with Deep Wound and Cripple, and they have a warrior on their ass - draw the conditions out of them and apply them to the enemy warrior with Plague Signet. Maybe there are better examples... like countering Virulence combos.

striderkaaru · Feb 22, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

there are useless elites...?

Murder In China · Feb 23, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Lies!

Kurow · Feb 23, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Could we have some sort of list of these useless elites?

Burakus Lightwing · Feb 23, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

Could we have some sort of list of these useless elites?

I agree with this statement. Useless to one, may not be useless to another.

Cirian- Plague signet. I did come across a W/N using this very effectively. Transferred his bleeding, poison, cripple and blind. It was a good build. He did lose eventually, more a testament to my team. However, that build was very good and made for a very good battle.

Inureface · Feb 24, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Keystone Signet, not that it's bad, but your WHOLE BUILD has to be based around it.

Spenser_For_Hire · Feb 24, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

useless elites, lets see
ok here goes
-peace and harmony
-life transfer, people might dissagree, but life siphon is better then life transfer and its not even an elite, life transfer lasts half its recharge so you cant spread that around like you can with life siphon
-incendiary arrows, only 8 seconds, choking gas is better and its not an elite, much like trasfer/siphon
-ether renewal, anet went super crazy nerf batty with this one, made it worse then useless
-IW, it has potential, but people who use it dont pet points in fast cast cause they focus on attack and defense, cover enchants if not casted by allies really quickly will not be used fast enough to stop real pros from removing IW
-keystone signet, cmon, im gonna even gonna say what sucks about this skill
-mantra of recovery, might be usefull in some builds, but this being an elite is just horrible
-skull crack, i have been trying like crazy to keep this skill from sucking, its not possible
-cleave, WHY????? eviscerate is 100000000x better

kvndoom · Feb 24, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

I made an axe-specific Hydra farming build based on Flourish some months ago. The trick is that you have to precede Flourish with 2 attacks (3 if you're lucky) that haven't recharged before you use Flourish. Otherwise it's wasted.

Here are some attack sequences that will render all Wards and evasive stances useless:

(they have to be launched in this order to trigger the energy and recharge of Flourish)
Swords:
1) Pure Strike
2) Seeking Blade
3) Flourish
4) Seeking Blade
5) Pure Strike
6) Seeking Blade
7) Flourish
...back to step 1, and throw in Final Thrust for good measure. It should be your only adrenaline skill, since this build is all about energy skills (Flourish doesn't charge adrenal skills)

This will be an unending chain of +damage attacks that cannot miss, and if the target's stance or ward is evasive, Seeking Blade can cause bleeding too.

Axes:
1) Swift Chop
2) Wild Blow
3) Thrill of Victory
4) Flourish
5) Thrill of Victory
6) Wild Blow
7) Swift Chop
8) Flourish
...back to step 1. No room for adrenaline attacks here because of Wild Blow, but if the target tries to use a blocking stance (or the monk casts Aegis), Swift Chop will give the gift of Deep Wound, and Wild Blow will end the stance anyway. (Thrill of Victory won't work against Aegis, since Aegis isn't a stance for Wild Blow to remove).

Knock-Down, Drag-Out (sword + stonefist gauntlets):

1) Griffon's Sweep
2) Seeking Blade
3) Flourish
4) Seeking Blade
5) Griffon's Sweep
6) Seeking Blade
7) Flourish
...back to step 1. This will absolutely devastate someone foolish enough to think that Ward Against Melee can save them. Knockdowns PLUS Bleeding, and none of the attacks can miss. Wear your Stonefists when executing this combo. If you catch the target inside a ward, and the first hit does knock them down, they may literally never be able to move from that spot until either they're dead or the Ward ends.

My sequences of attacks are very logical, and not at all random as they might appear. They are based on the recharge times of the attacks, and meant to maximize the number of skills that Flourish will recharge each time. Keep in mind that Flourish has a 1-second cast time (WHY?!?), and a 10-second recharge, so you have to use it strategically. You could even possibly add in an extra attack or 2 on the combos, depending on the skill recharge time (Distracting Blow would be an excellent one to throw in, kind of a poor man's Cry of Frustration).

Best place to practice this (to get the timing down pat) is on the Sand Drakes outside Elona Reach, since they spam Ward against Melee nonstop. But even against real people, you can really catch someone off guard if they're sitting inside a Ward or using a stance and have that smug, but false, sense of security.

Kurow · Feb 24, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spenser_For_Hire

-cleave, WHY????? eviscerate is 100000000x better

Actually, no. Cleave does a small amount more of DPS than eviscerate, in every case.

Heres a build with it:

Berserk Fury
Ranger / Warrior
For General Use
Generally a Damage Dealer

Attributes
Axe Mastery: 12
Beast Mastery: 3+1
Expertise: 9+1+1(hat)
Wilderness Survival: 9+1

Skills
Apply Poison
Cleave {Elite}
Cyclone Axe
Swift Chop
Tiger's Fury
Lightning Reflexes
Dryder's Defense / Resurrection Signet / Another Skill
Troll Unguent

Equipment
Axe +15% damage <50%, anything really
Low level shield, or +mana item
Druids armor for more mana

Summary
This build, as the name implies, is based on relentless attack. The expertise and tiger's fury allow for constant usage of attack skills, and cleave is used instead of eviscerate because of its lower adrenaline costs, which allow for a constant string of attack skills. Apply poison is present to add damage, and is also very useful with cyclone axe in PvE, and sometimes in PvP. Lightning reflexes is useful for evasion and allow you to cast troll unguent or apply poison with less fear of distracting shot, etc.
Ideally, you will enter the battle with apply poison in effect, and initiate tiger's fury, or lightning reflexes if you are taking a lot of heat, and basically wail on your target. For axe attacks, I usually just use cyclone axe and swift chop until cleave is available. You want to use cleave as much as possible. If that wasn’t obvious.

Also, an idea for the mantra of recovery... Me/E fast cast nuker, with fire!
Skills being...

Mantra of Recovery
Fireball
Meteor
Incendiary Bonds
Etc (aka im not an expert elemetalist)

Batou of Nine · Feb 24, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

wow good to see may builds already being created...
Keep it up! ( i didnt submit my Flourish build, cause yall have pretty much just posted it. lol! )

Keep it up yall! i like what i see! i guess i WILL have to submit a few soon, lol.

kvndoom · Feb 24, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Oooh! I just thought of one, that kicks ASS!

(Ranger) Apply Poison + Crippling Shot! Since Crippling Shot can't be blocked or evaded, you're guaranteed to add poison and crippling with one attack! Man, I'm a friggin' Genius to think of this all on my own!

Jancid Brennberg · Feb 24, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

I disagree on Spenser_For_Hires list.

Peace And Harmony - Nice for a monk who needs energy. I can't see, why it sucks.
Life Transfer - added Degen can't be sucking.
Incendiary Arrows - ever herad of R/E combos? It's a great skill.
Ether Renewal - okay, only one i'd second.
Illusionary Weaponry - Nice elite. Show another build with 34 damage each 0.89 seconds without stopping by blindness, ignoring armor and protections.
Keystone Signet - works. Memsers have a certain use for it, with weariness, midnight and so on signet.
Mantra Of Recovery -
Skull Crack - Nice Elite. It's an interrupt, which allows for 15s to interrupt way better. Ever seen a monk needing 1,5s for Mark of Protection? Hr.
Cleave - great skill, spammlike adrenalin support, now deep wound (which is an ADVANTAGE when fighting necros), good damage.

For example, my SF gear holder build, optimized to fight priests of sorrows and monk bosses:

1) Disrupting Chop (Interrupt for 20s)
2) Distracting Blow (Instant-Interrupt)
3) Skull Crack [E] (Interrupt & 15s dazed, makes casters take twice as long to gfinish spells)
4) Executioners Strike (for the way into the Furnace and occasional geardrop-hit-gearpickups)
5) Dolyaks Signet (+38 AL; thankies - spammable with 19s duration, 20s recharge, no energy cost, no activation time)
6) Endure Pain (1000 HP, here i come. Counters higher damage intake % degen)
7) Mending (cover enchantment, bleeding counter)
8) Rebirth (Hard-Rezz, came in handy, as i am W/Mo anyway for this)

Sab · Feb 24, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Peace and Harmony - Not so good when you compare it to other energy management elites.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=peace+harmony

Life Transfer - Degen is great, but an elite just for that?

Incendiary Arrows - Never bothered with it because of its short duration/long recharge.

Ether Renewal - Never used it.

Illusionary Weaponry - Awesome, if you can avoid getting it stripped.

Keystone Signet - Difficult to use effectively. As usual with these sort of skills, the skills you want to use it on are all elites (Signet of Midnight is an elite, for example).

Mantra of Recovery - Has potential, but again, difficult to use.

Skull Crack - A ranger or a mesmer can achieve the same effect without elites (Concussion Shot or Arcane Conundrum). As a warrior, I prefer to leave interrupting to them whenever possible.

Cleave - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ght=eviscerate

My contribution to the list: Signet of Judgment